From: "Tony Huan" 
Subject: Fwd: From Saw Thein
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 09:40:23 -0600

Hi to all,
I would like to share the email I received from Myanmar.
Last Sabbath, we had a special collection to be used by ADRA.

Please keep them in your prayers.
Regards
Tony
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: myanmar frontier 
<myanmar_frontiers@sailormoon.com>
Date: Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: From Saw Thein
To: huan.tony@gmail.com

Dear Bro Tony Huan;

Thanks for asking. In May 3 Sabbath we could not able having worship 
service at Yangon Central Church and I think all storm effected areas of 
Ayeyawady Division, Yangon Division, Bago Division, Mon Sate, and Karen 
State. Last Sabbath we have a few worshippers attended. In Yangon all main 
roads and streets are block. The terrible storm swept every thing where we 
live in Yangon City. Almost big trees fell down, many electricity stands 
broken and fell down. Most of the places there could not able fixed the 
electricity yet. The price for everything became so high and most of people 
faced big trouble to survive. By the grace of God Myanmar Union Mission 
headquarter office and staff residence and the staff residents at Park lane 
compound not very much spoil compare to other places. Mango trees and most 
of the trees at the compound were also fall down. Mission staff residences 
at Lloyd Street no more roofing. Some of our church members in Ayeyawady 
Mission lost their lives and suffered as victims of the dangerous storm. It 
hit especially in Labutta Tsp., Bogalay Tsp., Mawgyune Tsp. and thousands 
of lives were lost. Please remember them in your prayers. Thank you very 
much for your love and concern to us.

Yours in Christ's service;

Saw Thein

From: "Dan Drazen" 
Subject: Fasting (was: Re: About eating on the Sabbath)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:06:14 -0600

Skyy,

To me, this is a no-brainer.  Religious fasting is a spiritual discipline, 
to be entered into voluntarily -- it certainly isn't a threat directed at 
God to make Him do things our way.  It's not something to be imposed on 
anyone, no matter what their age.  This is especially true for children, 
whose nutritional needs are different from us oldsters, especially those of 
us who could afford to miss a meal now and then.  I hold nothing against 
fasting, just as I hold nothing against marathon prayer sessions, but to 
MAKE someone do it without the proper understanding and/or desire does more 
harm than good.

Daniel J. Drazen 

From: Tony Zbaraschuk 
Subject: Re: Adventist splinter groups (LOR)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:07:06 -0600

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 11:20:37PM -0600, Leroy Moore wrote:
 > The story of John and his wife, Sharon is told in a book that was published
 > sometime in the mid-90s. It has likely been out of print for some time by
 > now. But it gave considerable insight into that movement.

The book in question is:

   Dark light: the John Witcombe story, by Eileen E. Lantry
   Boise, Idaho: Pacific Press, 1996
   ISBN 0816313121

in case anyone wanted to track down a copy.


Tony Zbaraschuk

-- 
Do not ask a Librarian for advice, for she will say both No and Yes,
and Have you checked this source? 

From: Bille Burdick 
Subject: Re: the dead
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:07:30 -0600

At 10:40 PM 5/14/2008 -0600, waodipo@carboua.com wrote:
>Dear all,
>
>I prefer to think of the spirit as power of God that gives life (soul)
>to the body. This spirit, as recorded in Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 is not
>some unique entity specific for each individual, but as a universal
>power, provides which ever body it comes in contact with the life.

Thank you for your thoughts on this, Washington.  I certainly
agree that the "spirit" is not the "unique entity" that is the
person.  I also, however, do not think I would call it a
"universal power", since that tends to make it sound rather
impersonal.... while God... as you say below is a Personal being
who decides when and to whom to give life.

>Upon death, the analogy that the spirit goes back to God does not mean
>a literal travel from the body to the heavenly places to await
>resurrection, but is used to reveal that life is under God's will
>wherein when He decides to switch off the breath, the body ceases to
>live.

This point of there being no "literal travel from the body to the
heavenly places" is especially important in view of the fact that
there are some quite complicated theories about just how this is
accomplished in some of the channelled materials.  Keeping in
mind that "the spirit goes back to God" IS, as you say, only an
*analogy* can go a long way to alert us to the falsity of these
other theories when we run into them somewhere.

I also think that we have made a mistake in accepting the term
"soul sleep" as an accurate description of our belief in the
"state of the dead" between death and the resurrection.  In doing
so, we have given tacit approval to the idea that there was an
entity that was literally "sleeping".  When in actuality, that
does not reflect our belief, and our use of the term "sleep" is
merely following the biblical example of using "sleep" as a
metaphor for the interlude between the time of death and the
resurrection.


>Ezekiel saw that the spirit is like wind which came and gave bones
>life. As wind, the breath of life comes to them that God wills to
>impart the life.
>
>Personally I like to give analogy of life as a light bulb. The bulb is
>the body, the electric power is the spirit, and the light that comes
>out when the two unite is the life. When you switch off the power (the
>spirit) the bulb dies (light goes off). Because you are in control of
>the electric power, it can be said that you took the power to yourself
>by switching it off, which, on the other side of reasoning, can be
>written that the power came to you.
>
>So I dont think that the spirit has any mind to be unconscious or
>otherwise. The mind is in the body where thinking takes place
>biologically when the breath is still not switched off.

Agreed.

Bille Burdick


>God bless,
>Washington Odipo.
>
>On 5/13/08, Kevin Riley  wrote:
> >
> >
> > -------Original Message-------
> >
> > From: Dyini, Siphokazi \(Miss\) \(s207078866\)
> > Date: 13/05/2008 11:52:06 AM
> >
> > I would like to know the matter about the dead, I want to know where does
> > the spirit go, I have been explaining to people that the person does not go
> > to heaven immediately.
> >
> >
> >  ***************************
> > The spirit returns to God who gave it, the body returns to the earth 
> that it
> > was created from - Ecclesiastes 12:7.  The "person" (soul in Biblical 
> terms)
> > ceases to exist when body and spirit separate at death.  The spirit is
> > breath, and also the individuality of each person.  The fact that the dead
> > know nothing has led many people - including those outside the SDA church -
> > to conclude that the spirit "sleeps", or is in some unconscious state, 
> while
> > with God.  The comforting fact is that the spirit - the thing that makes
> > each of us a living individual - is kept safely by God until the
> > resurrection.  What exact state it is in doesn't really matter.
> >
> > Kevin Riley

From: Bille Burdick 
Subject: Fasting (was Re: About eating on the Sabbath)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:07:53 -0600

At 10:35 PM 5/14/2008 -0600, Skyy Taggart wrote:
>Good afternoon, all,
>
>A few months ago, there was some discussion among
>our church members about having a prayer and fasting day
>on a future Sabbath.

Did anyone bring up the directives about fasting that
Jesus himself gave?

In Matthew 6, there are three things mentioned... giving alms,
praying, and fasting... on each one, the counsel is that they
should not be done in ways which call public attention to the
fact they *are* being done and with the final comment on each
one being, "and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward
thee openly."

What I take from this is that even though the church should
appoint a day for fasting and prayer, that the actual doing
of that should be individual actions rather than being
either communal group actions or even being done in such
a way that other members of the group even know who is
and who is no participating.

>Some of the folks said this was fine for the adults, but
>that our children (in particular, the little ones) should not
>be included in that day's fasting session.

If that were followed, then there would be no such thing
as a public "fasting session" where all would be cognizant
of who was and who was not eating.  And certainly children
would not be "required" to abstain from food... for what
good is a "fast and prayer" if it does not come from a
willing and understanding heart?

>One person spoke up and said that "children must be taught
>to deny themselves. Otherwise, how can we expect them to
>learn?"  He was adamant that children should also fast from
>food.

He is speaking out of his ignorance of both the topic of
fasting and of God's way with humankind... which he should
be modeling in the way he treats the "least among us".

>If I may speak plainly, some of our "good little Adventist
>children" are already behaving like little hellions during the
>worship service, and some parents seem oblivious to how
>their young ones disrupt the service.  Shall we add fuel to
>the fire and deny the children food on Sabbath afternoon,
>thereby ensuring their continued disruptive behavior?

Perhaps it is time here to look at the Old Testament to find
out just what kind of fast is acceptable to God...

Isa 58...
     5"Is it a fast like this which I choose,
          a day for a man to humble himself?
          Is it for bowing one's head like a reed
          And for spreading out sackcloth and ashes as a bed?
          Will you call this a fast, even an acceptable day to the LORD?
     6"Is this not the fast which I choose,
          To loosen the bonds of wickedness,
          To undo the bands of the yoke,
          And to let the oppressed go free
          And break every yoke?
     7"Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry
          And bring the homeless poor into the house;
          When you see the naked, to cover him;
          And not to hide yourself from your own flesh?
     8"Then your light will break out like the dawn,
          And your recovery will speedily spring forth;
          And your righteousness will go before you;
          The glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.
     9"Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
          You will cry, and He will say, 'Here I am '
          If you remove the yoke from your midst,
          The pointing of the finger and speaking wickedness,
     10And if you give yourself to the hungry
          And satisfy the desire of the afflicted,
          Then your light will rise in darkness
          And your gloom will become like midday.
     11"And the LORD will continually guide you,
          And satisfy your desire in scorched places,
          And give strength to your bones;
          And you will be like a watered garden,
          And like a spring of water whose waters do not fail.

How many references do you see here to abstaining from food...
and calling that a "fast"?

Please notice... the only lines having to do with food say
"to divide your bread with the hungry"... and
"give yourself to the hungry."

There is no justification here for fasting as some sort of
way to "earn points" with God!

>Bad behavior aside, I don't believe it is a good idea for children
>to be forced to fast from food.

Agreed.  Nor is it a good idea for anyone to be forced... either
through overt coercion of the more subtle kind that involves
making a ritual of skipping a meal take on pietistic overtones.

>As adults, we know ahead of
>time when fasting sessions are scheduled, and we can prepare
>our hearts and minds to enter into this session of prayer and fasting.

There are good reasons for fasting... for the person who has
health problems that would be improved by abstaining or at
least cutting down on the amounts and kind of food eaten.  If
one has a problem with gluttony... there might be a spiritual
benefit from disciplining ones self in this way.

But we also need to understand that "fasting" does not necessarily
mean abstaining from ALL food and drink.... which to some people
may actually be a health hazard.  There are different kinds of
"fasts"... both scripture and Ellen White speak of "fasts" during
which only "plain food" is taken... and all "rich foods" are
left off.  Medically speaking, there are also "juice fasts" in
which adequate nutrition is obtained from an all liquid diet for
a period of time... thus giving rest to the digestive organs
which in certain conditions is beneficial.


>I agree that in raising our children we should let them know why
>adults choose to fast; however, I think it is a good idea to allow our
>young people to reach an age of spiritual maturity (teen years,
>maybe?), and encourage them to do the research, and be led by
>the Holy Spirit regarding fasting.  Also, children are still growing
>physically.  Many of our veggie-burger eating, alcohol-abstaining,
>Bible-thumping Adventist adults could stand to refrain from a
>meal or two, judging by the extra pounds some of us are carrying
>around (myself included).
>
>A last note.  I sometimes bring two little friends to church (they
>are now 8 and 6), and there is no way that I am going to tell
>these young ones that they will be forced to join me in fasting
>on any given Sabbath.  They would most likely look at me
>as if I had two heads, and then tell their mother that they don't
>care to come to church with me in the future.  They know why
>the "big people" sometimes fast, and they also know this is not
>for them right now.

I applaud your convictions on this.  I hope you are successful in
bringing your fellow church members into a more biblically sound
view of fasting as a spiritual exercise.

Bille Burdick


>Have a blessed day.
>
>Skyy Taggart